I apparently blinked and missed another flare-up of "OSR" blogoshpere melodrama - but what in the name of Orcus' besmeared farting hole could have been so bad as to make Mike take down his "Old Guy" blog?
His blog was one of the ones that really made me want to game again; the whole Dark Ages campaign really enthused me and I loved reading what he had to say about running one like that. This really sucks.
The D&D With Porn Stars blog. The guy behind it started doing an online video thingy with the Escapist magazine, which had some dubious language but no actual porn or anything. This got mentioned in a news post of stuff going on in the Old School Renaissance. Someone started ranting about how this was a deliberate effort to ignore real news in favour of WotC's latest attempt to turn D&D into a computer game (seriously - the escapist's focus on computer gaming was used to justify this), and some other people got upset because a video advertised as being based on a blog named "D&D With Porn Stars" and being about someone playing D&D with porn stars wasn't plastered with PROBABLY NOT FOR YOUR SHELTERED KIDS warnings. Turns out the guy putting together the news post... simply hadn't noticed every tiny thing going on in the old school blogging community that week, a truly terrible crime.
More drama ensued. Weirdly, some of the people moaning about the video had no problem with the blog... which actually has had at least one photo of a breast.
It's pretty stupid and made of fail all around. I like the blog in question - his quick urban mapping scheme was amazing - although I miss the Old Guy blog.
Most people seem to be handling it sanely and ignoring it and just posting more cool stuff, thankfully.
Also, if this comment causes your comment section to go all Dramatic, please delete it.
Yeah, I saw that tweet. I'm still having trouble processing it, though. Mike was a voice of reason in the wilderness, the keel that remained even despite the incessant teacup tempests that seem to plague our waters. Color me baffled.
@Anonymous: Thanks, I know (more or less) the nature of the tempest. What I don't get was what happened that was so bad to make probably the most reasonable bloggers of us all decide it was time to abandon hundreds of followers and pack it in.
I wish I really knew. I got up this morning after not checking the feeds, finding this, learning a lot of favorite bookmarks were invalidated and one of my favorite voices of the OSR gone.
I saw what Anonymous posted, it seems like such a small temptest in a teapot to drive this reaction. I do wonder what I'm missing and wish I could have a beer with him to find out more.
Agreed, mhensley. It was only unofficially retarded before. But with 'Old Guy' vanishing from the blogosphere, it's now 100% cemented into complete and total retardation.
Chgowiz, please consider coming back. Your blog is/was hands down my favorite. In fact it's one of the few OSR blogs I read regularly anymore. Every last post. Your solo games are the only thing that brought me back into D&D after the negativity of so many aspects of Dragonsfoot, bloggers, and 4th edition whining drove me away from it.
When someone volunteers to promote their community and work their guts out to see it grow, only to then be shat upon by people from within that community, people who slander them and question their morality, it's probably understandable why that person would then say "bugger you Jack, I'm off". Makes you wonder at the motivation of those who stirred it all up in the first place.
I think there is probably more to it than this incident. As I said somewhere else, it is more like the spark that lit the tinder for the guys involved. And as David Macauley said elsewhere, this will all blow over, people will realise the sky is not falling, and things will be back much as they were.
Here's hoping Chgowiz comes back soon. We love the man's blog.
I understand—believe me—feeling at times so exasperated with the idiocy of flame wars that one wants to just give up, I really do. Some fools' opinions are so dreadful that one momentarily loses hope for the the future of mankind just by exposure to those opinions. One thinks, "My god, if it's possible for anyone anywhere to think like that then we really are doomed."
In the end the best revenge is to persevere, as Miss Manners argues so persuasively. Let the barbarians rage while we keep on being the best people we can.
Please come back, Mike. Your friends and admirers miss you.
Stop right there, Christopher B. If ChgoWiz is the voice of reason in the OSR blogsphere (read that as: incessant circlejerking pundits), then that collection of rabble needed a new spokesman anyway. Old Guy would blow up at the tiniest perceived slight, and would get all "OSR and Blogs are SERIOUS, man!" about piddly bullshit all the time.
Frankly, it would probably be better off for his health if he walked away and never looked back, because he took this shit way too seriously.
@Anonymous (the last two comments): Although tempted to simply delete your comments, I've decided it far better to leave them, since they stand as a shining testament to your courage, maturity, and intelligence. Blogs will come and go, but - much to the dismay of decent and intelligent people everywhere - cowardly, immature trolls will forever stalk the internet. /sigh
I want to agree with Anonymous. When I complained about TARGA and left the group, ChgoWiz pissed and moaned about how I've never done anything for the community, so noone should listen to me. I don't need to tout my "resume" here, but I've done a lot more than run a blog.
Yet he gets pissy, leaves the community altogether, not just TARGA, and everyone's supposed to kiss his ass? Good riddance.
@chatddemon: "I want to agree with Anonymous. When I complained about TARGA and left the group, ChgoWiz pissed and moaned about how I've never done anything for the community, so noone should listen to me. I don't need to tout my "resume" here, but I've done a lot more than run a blog."
Well, since you've not seen fit to post under a Google account, an OpenID account, or under any other means that allows us to identify you, I think you do need to "tout" your "'resume'" here. Otherwise, you're just another "Anonymous." Or are we supposed to buy that your opinion is worth bothering with based on your empty claims?
"Yet he gets pissy, leaves the community altogether, not just TARGA, and everyone's supposed to kiss his ass?"
I'm not sure who asked you to kiss anyone's ass, but it was not myself or any of the others who commented on this post. If someone elsewhere has done so, I suggest you take up your grievances with that party. I can guarantee you'll achieve better results by directing your complaints to the party involved.
"Good riddance."
Well, since you're essentially just another anonymous troll at this point, this is a completely meaningless close to a completely meaningless comment. I mean, not only do you have nothing constructive to say here, but you've done so anonymously and with unsubstantiated claims as to your contributions to "the community."
Furthermore, it looks like the only post you're interested on my site is this one, since - according to the page logs - it's the only page you've visited. Which, by the way, it seems you've reloaded several times since you posted your comment. Sorry, but this is the behavioral pattern of a troll of the highest magnitude.
If you care to look around at other posts on this blog, you may discover entries that are far more useful or entertaining than this one. If you choose not to do so, or if you decide to leave further troll-ish comments (which, rest assured, will be promptly deleted as I have no desire for hosting such useless exposition here) then I say "good riddance" to you.
To be fair to Chatdemon, anyone who has been involved in the online old school scene over the last 10 years or so (back before it was called "old school") would know who he was and have seen his prolific work with Greyhawk and Basic/1e D&D.
While I think his comment sounds like unnecessary sour grapes, he also has an insight into the TARGA issue that most of us don't, based on his own personal experience. While the reasons Chgowiz left the scene are probably many and not all related to gaming, it seems the proverbial straw was TARGA infighting. So yes though Chatdemon's comment sounds like an "it's unfair, look at me" whine, the fact is he's probably the most "qualified" here to comment.
I didn't log in last night, this better? Rich Trickey, aka chatdemon, breeyark@gmail.com
Let me start off by saying that I have nothing against you, your blog (which I read regularly, despite not commenting before, my apologies for not posting any positive feedback prior to a negative post) or anyone posting in this discussion.
Since you asked, I am one of the founding administrators of Canonfire.com, the "defacto official" greyhawk fansite, and was the guiding force behind that site from 2001 to 2008. I've been somewhat active in the wotc OOP forums, dragonsfoot classic dnd forums, ODD Guild Yahoogroup and a few other minor places for over a decade, but again, at times I read much more than I comment on the blogs and forums.
I was agreeing with the comment that Chgowiz, despite running a nice blog, was prone to fits of pot stirring, including the one I mentioned where he felt the need to make an unprovoked attack on me for voicing an opinion on TARGA, which is odd, considering that the reaction to his opinions on TARGA is what drove him away. If he wants to be dismissive and bitchy, I won't miss him, despite his otherwise good work. If that makes me the a-hole, so be it I guess.
And thanks to those who offered some acknowledgement of my past efforts.
Oh, and no, believe it or not, there was NO relationship, positive or negative, between Chgowiz and I prior to his remarks about me on TARGAtalk, which he waited till after I left the group to post.
Having said that, if you want to delete my comment about him, I'll not begrudge that. It's your world.
@Rich: Thank you taking the time to make yourself clear. I have nothing whatsoever against folks making known their opinions, regardless of any dissimilarity to my own.
Your second post would have been welcomed in place of the first, which smacked of the same trollish behavior exhibited by Anonymous Three and Anonymous Four. (Yes, it appears to be a pair of trolls, not just a lone renegade.) These folks saw fit to visit my blog once each only to use it as podium from which to slander someone whose blog I enjoyed and who - in my experience - seemed more level-headed than many of the OSR types I've witnessed exhibiting bad behavior to date.
It was unfortunate that your original post was not only poorly representative of you and contrite, but that you were also vague as to your level of agreement with "Anonymous." Not only did these two have issues with Chgowiz - which is perfectly on-topic here - but they also opted to slander/attack the OSR blogger community, of which I consider myself a member. Identifying yourself with these trolls did not put you on good footing from the get go, and the aggressive tone invited confrontation.
Rest assured, Rich, constructive, composed comments such as your second are more than welcome on my blog. I'm glad you have taken time to enjoy this site, and hope you continue to do so. Comments, positive or negative, will always be welcome - provided they are constructive.
Notice to everybody: comments such as Rich's first and those of the last two "Anonymous" commenters will no longer be tolerated here.
Unfortunately, it appears he's (visibly) dropping out of the scene totally.
ReplyDeleteHis blog was one of the ones that really made me want to game again; the whole Dark Ages campaign really enthused me and I loved reading what he had to say about running one like that. This really sucks.
The D&D With Porn Stars blog. The guy behind it started doing an online video thingy with the Escapist magazine, which had some dubious language but no actual porn or anything. This got mentioned in a news post of stuff going on in the Old School Renaissance. Someone started ranting about how this was a deliberate effort to ignore real news in favour of WotC's latest attempt to turn D&D into a computer game (seriously - the escapist's focus on computer gaming was used to justify this), and some other people got upset because a video advertised as being based on a blog named "D&D With Porn Stars" and being about someone playing D&D with porn stars wasn't plastered with PROBABLY NOT FOR YOUR SHELTERED KIDS warnings. Turns out the guy putting together the news post... simply hadn't noticed every tiny thing going on in the old school blogging community that week, a truly terrible crime.
ReplyDeleteMore drama ensued. Weirdly, some of the people moaning about the video had no problem with the blog... which actually has had at least one photo of a breast.
It's pretty stupid and made of fail all around. I like the blog in question - his quick urban mapping scheme was amazing - although I miss the Old Guy blog.
Most people seem to be handling it sanely and ignoring it and just posting more cool stuff, thankfully.
Also, if this comment causes your comment section to go all Dramatic, please delete it.
Yeah, I saw that tweet. I'm still having trouble processing it, though. Mike was a voice of reason in the wilderness, the keel that remained even despite the incessant teacup tempests that seem to plague our waters. Color me baffled.
ReplyDeleteThe Old Guy is gone? That's just a shame. That was one of my favorites on my blogroll. I hope things cool down and Chgowiz comes back.
ReplyDelete@Anonymous: Thanks, I know (more or less) the nature of the tempest. What I don't get was what happened that was so bad to make probably the most reasonable bloggers of us all decide it was time to abandon hundreds of followers and pack it in.
ReplyDeleteI wish I really knew. I got up this morning after not checking the feeds, finding this, learning a lot of favorite bookmarks were invalidated and one of my favorite voices of the OSR gone.
ReplyDeleteI saw what Anonymous posted, it seems like such a small temptest in a teapot to drive this reaction. I do wonder what I'm missing and wish I could have a beer with him to find out more.
(same anonymous)
ReplyDeleteWell, apparently there was more, nastier drama on the TARGA yahoo group.
This whole thing sucks. :(
Crap.
ReplyDeleteInternet drama... blech :(
ReplyDeleteThis whole thing is officially retarded now.
ReplyDeleteholy fuck, i had no idea Chgowiz took down his whole blog.
ReplyDeletethis is depressing.
Agreed, mhensley. It was only unofficially retarded before. But with 'Old Guy' vanishing from the blogosphere, it's now 100% cemented into complete and total retardation.
ReplyDeleteChgowiz, please consider coming back. Your blog is/was hands down my favorite. In fact it's one of the few OSR blogs I read regularly anymore. Every last post. Your solo games are the only thing that brought me back into D&D after the negativity of so many aspects of Dragonsfoot, bloggers, and 4th edition whining drove me away from it.
Man I'm so depressed now.
Wow. I've been a fan of his blog for a long time. I guess I just don't see the good that comes out of "I'm taking my toys and going home."
ReplyDeleteI wouldn't ever let some disagreement with anyone (or any group for that matter) affect my own blog. It's mine after all! :)
I hope Mike returns after this whole thing cools off for a while.
When someone volunteers to promote their community and work their guts out to see it grow, only to then be shat upon by people from within that community, people who slander them and question their morality, it's probably understandable why that person would then say "bugger you Jack, I'm off". Makes you wonder at the motivation of those who stirred it all up in the first place.
ReplyDeleteI think there is probably more to it than this incident. As I said somewhere else, it is more like the spark that lit the tinder for the guys involved. And as David Macauley said elsewhere, this will all blow over, people will realise the sky is not falling, and things will be back much as they were.
ReplyDeleteHere's hoping Chgowiz comes back soon. We love the man's blog.
ReplyDeleteI understand—believe me—feeling at times so exasperated with the idiocy of flame wars that one wants to just give up, I really do. Some fools' opinions are so dreadful that one momentarily loses hope for the the future of mankind just by exposure to those opinions. One thinks, "My god, if it's possible for anyone anywhere to think like that then we really are doomed."
In the end the best revenge is to persevere, as Miss Manners argues so persuasively. Let the barbarians rage while we keep on being the best people we can.
Please come back, Mike. Your friends and admirers miss you.
Come back Mike!!
ReplyDeleteBut... but... I just found his blog a couple of weeks ago! Noooooooooooo...
ReplyDeleteIt's a real shame that he's gone, but maybe after some time he'll come back? Maybe?
http://havedicewilltravel.blogspot.com/
Stop right there, Christopher B. If ChgoWiz is the voice of reason in the OSR blogsphere (read that as: incessant circlejerking pundits), then that collection of rabble needed a new spokesman anyway. Old Guy would blow up at the tiniest perceived slight, and would get all "OSR and Blogs are SERIOUS, man!" about piddly bullshit all the time.
ReplyDeleteFrankly, it would probably be better off for his health if he walked away and never looked back, because he took this shit way too seriously.
One OSR blog down. 5,437,728 to go. Finally, the dominoes begin to fall. Hopefully.
ReplyDeleteNotice how the whole thing didn't even score a blip on any of the forums? That speaks volumes regarding the insularity of the OSR blogs
@Anonymous (the last two comments): Although tempted to simply delete your comments, I've decided it far better to leave them, since they stand as a shining testament to your courage, maturity, and intelligence. Blogs will come and go, but - much to the dismay of decent and intelligent people everywhere - cowardly, immature trolls will forever stalk the internet. /sigh
ReplyDeleteI want to agree with Anonymous. When I complained about TARGA and left the group, ChgoWiz pissed and moaned about how I've never done anything for the community, so noone should listen to me. I don't need to tout my "resume" here, but I've done a lot more than run a blog.
ReplyDeleteYet he gets pissy, leaves the community altogether, not just TARGA, and everyone's supposed to kiss his ass? Good riddance.
@chatddemon: "I want to agree with Anonymous. When I complained about TARGA and left the group, ChgoWiz pissed and moaned about how I've never done anything for the community, so noone should listen to me. I don't need to tout my "resume" here, but I've done a lot more than run a blog."
ReplyDeleteWell, since you've not seen fit to post under a Google account, an OpenID account, or under any other means that allows us to identify you, I think you do need to "tout" your "'resume'" here. Otherwise, you're just another "Anonymous." Or are we supposed to buy that your opinion is worth bothering with based on your empty claims?
"Yet he gets pissy, leaves the community altogether, not just TARGA, and everyone's supposed to kiss his ass?"
I'm not sure who asked you to kiss anyone's ass, but it was not myself or any of the others who commented on this post. If someone elsewhere has done so, I suggest you take up your grievances with that party. I can guarantee you'll achieve better results by directing your complaints to the party involved.
"Good riddance."
Well, since you're essentially just another anonymous troll at this point, this is a completely meaningless close to a completely meaningless comment. I mean, not only do you have nothing constructive to say here, but you've done so anonymously and with unsubstantiated claims as to your contributions to "the community."
Furthermore, it looks like the only post you're interested on my site is this one, since - according to the page logs - it's the only page you've visited. Which, by the way, it seems you've reloaded several times since you posted your comment. Sorry, but this is the behavioral pattern of a troll of the highest magnitude.
If you care to look around at other posts on this blog, you may discover entries that are far more useful or entertaining than this one. If you choose not to do so, or if you decide to leave further troll-ish comments (which, rest assured, will be promptly deleted as I have no desire for hosting such useless exposition here) then I say "good riddance" to you.
To be fair to Chatdemon, anyone who has been involved in the online old school scene over the last 10 years or so (back before it was called "old school") would know who he was and have seen his prolific work with Greyhawk and Basic/1e D&D.
ReplyDeleteWhile I think his comment sounds like unnecessary sour grapes, he also has an insight into the TARGA issue that most of us don't, based on his own personal experience. While the reasons Chgowiz left the scene are probably many and not all related to gaming, it seems the proverbial straw was TARGA infighting. So yes though Chatdemon's comment sounds like an "it's unfair, look at me" whine, the fact is he's probably the most "qualified" here to comment.
I didn't log in last night, this better? Rich Trickey, aka chatdemon, breeyark@gmail.com
ReplyDeleteLet me start off by saying that I have nothing against you, your blog (which I read regularly, despite not commenting before, my apologies for not posting any positive feedback prior to a negative post) or anyone posting in this discussion.
Since you asked, I am one of the founding administrators of Canonfire.com, the "defacto official" greyhawk fansite, and was the guiding force behind that site from 2001 to 2008. I've been somewhat active in the wotc OOP forums, dragonsfoot classic dnd forums, ODD Guild Yahoogroup and a few other minor places for over a decade, but again, at times I read much more than I comment on the blogs and forums.
I was agreeing with the comment that Chgowiz, despite running a nice blog, was prone to fits of pot stirring, including the one I mentioned where he felt the need to make an unprovoked attack on me for voicing an opinion on TARGA, which is odd, considering that the reaction to his opinions on TARGA is what drove him away. If he wants to be dismissive and bitchy, I won't miss him, despite his otherwise good work. If that makes me the a-hole, so be it I guess.
And thanks to those who offered some acknowledgement of my past efforts.
Oh, and no, believe it or not, there was NO relationship, positive or negative, between Chgowiz and I prior to his remarks about me on TARGAtalk, which he waited till after I left the group to post.
Having said that, if you want to delete my comment about him, I'll not begrudge that. It's your world.
@Rich: Thank you taking the time to make yourself clear. I have nothing whatsoever against folks making known their opinions, regardless of any dissimilarity to my own.
ReplyDeleteYour second post would have been welcomed in place of the first, which smacked of the same trollish behavior exhibited by Anonymous Three and Anonymous Four. (Yes, it appears to be a pair of trolls, not just a lone renegade.) These folks saw fit to visit my blog once each only to use it as podium from which to slander someone whose blog I enjoyed and who - in my experience - seemed more level-headed than many of the OSR types I've witnessed exhibiting bad behavior to date.
It was unfortunate that your original post was not only poorly representative of you and contrite, but that you were also vague as to your level of agreement with "Anonymous." Not only did these two have issues with Chgowiz - which is perfectly on-topic here - but they also opted to slander/attack the OSR blogger community, of which I consider myself a member. Identifying yourself with these trolls did not put you on good footing from the get go, and the aggressive tone invited confrontation.
Rest assured, Rich, constructive, composed comments such as your second are more than welcome on my blog. I'm glad you have taken time to enjoy this site, and hope you continue to do so. Comments, positive or negative, will always be welcome - provided they are constructive.
Notice to everybody: comments such as Rich's first and those of the last two "Anonymous" commenters will no longer be tolerated here.